Unknown Unknowns

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Unknown Unknowns

Postby LD330 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:14 am

I remember when I first found this forum, it was from researching Crowley. I was interested in the visionaries Timothy Leary and Robert Anton Wilson, who had oddly recommended this 19th century occultist with the weirdest Wikipedia page I had ever seen.

He started the Aeon of Horus? Really?

But he seemed like he knew what he was doing, and he seemed like he had powers of introspection, so I could see the value of the exercises he was prescribing on the papers on Hermetic.com. I learned basically everything I know about Thelema from Hermetic.com and this forum.

It was like a gold mine of new information. It was an entirely new language of things I had never heard of, and a language in which people were fluent.

So I just read everything I could on this website. Thank you James Eshelman, I have never met you but this forum and Temple of Thelema introduced me to so many new ideas that I never would have encountered had you not made this organization and this website.

I am now trying to go through some of the deeper material that I had seen on here, but could not comprehend.

I walked in understanding chaos magic, thinking the idea of magick entailed believing whatever you want, and hoping it would come true. That's probably a good experiment, but not one you have to do over and over and over again.

So the broader categories of ideas I am looking to experiment with are:
Kabbalah
Astrology
Hinduism

If you look into the Kabbalah outside of the Tree of Life, which alone seems a bit useless, it has its own primary texts. The main three appear to me to be Sepher Yetzirah, the Bahir and the Zohar. Also of use I'm sure would be the Torah, the first five books of the Old Testament.

Aryeh Kaplan has translations of the Torah, Sepher Yetzirah and the Bahir. The Zohar is a bit weightier, I have the 5-volume set coming in the mail, at 2,000-4,000 pages and multiple volumes. But it appears to be the "chakras and the Third Eye's" of the Jewish race that we were all waiting for.

Astrology I have little knowledge of and I hate being pinned down, so I ignored it.

But I thought of something earlier that rang true with me: In order to predict, you need to be looking at the stars.

There's a reason Chockmah is correlated with the sky and space. Our next move is in outer space.

We're blocked by the Big Dipper or something?

So that, especially the stars, is something I am interested in...

Hinduism I am researching and can give these as recommended books:
Ramayana
Mahabharata
Bhagavad Gita
Yoga Sutras of Patanjali
Upanishads
Vedas
Puranas
Kama Sutra

The reason for the title of this thread, Unknown Unknowns, was I never would have gotten into these ideas (except maybe Hinduism) without this forum and the thoughts from this forum.

Are there other Unknown Unknowns people should be aware of?

I like it when people put things forward. For example, I learned a lot of philosophy from the poster Los on this forum several years back. Better communication skills and negotiating was another one I picked up on. No person is ever conclusively wrong as a human. You're wrong objectively and in existence.

Any ideas or recommendations, of things that rewarded you or turned out to be good personal investments, would be greatly appreciated. I'll post mine if I get a few replies, I made it a list and am reviewing it to keep doing them.
"People in this world look at things mistakenly, and think that what they do not understand must be the void. This is not the true void. It is bewilderment."
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Re: Unknown Unknowns

Postby seekinghga » Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:45 am

LD330 wrote:I remember when I first found this forum, it was from researching Crowley. I was interested in the visionaries Timothy Leary and Robert Anton Wilson, who had oddly recommended this 19th century occultist with the weirdest Wikipedia page I had ever seen.

He started the Aeon of Horus? Really?

It might make me unpopular here, something that I have no experience with, but Crowley's Book of the Law is a work of his subconscious. "Behold! it is revealed by Aiwass the minister of Hoor-paar-kraat." The Minister of Silence must be Thought, which precludes its liege...

IF you do any extensive research into the works and authors that he cited often (the Bible, Sir Richard Francis Burton, Shelley, etc.), all of which were around before 1904, you will see the themes already in germination. Liber Legis is a tool, use it as such. It all comes down to separating attachment from valuation. Please note that I am in no way trying to denigrate Crowley's influence. Without Aleister Crowley I wouldn't know what I am. What he did for humanity is not promulgate a new religion, but give a method or model for discovering oneself in the midst of a burgeoning technocracy.

The irreducible element of existence is awareness. If a thing is not susceptible to awareness then it does not exist. This is simple enough. Crowley's flaw was that he was a YouTube personality before YouTube was a gleam in its parents' eyes.

Thank you James Eshelman,

Ditto.

There's a reason Chockmah is correlated with the sky and space. Our next move is in outer space.

We're blocked by the Big Dipper or something?

So that, especially the stars, is something I am interested in...

Ain Soph is a blank sheet of paper and a pen (utmost potential). Kether is the point (see what I did there?) where the pen first touches the paper. Chokmah is the first motion of that pen on paper, before it creates any meaningful shape. Binah is aspiration, but before it goes into action. Knowledge is a mental comprehension or translation of that aspiration, appreciable to ratiocination. I love using big words, but it makes me sound dumb. :) Chokmah and Kether are not subservient or lesser though. Both of them are requirements of the rest. Think of I and O in the computer. It's not fascinating to look at a miles long printout of such figures, and yet they are integral to the modern world.

Here is a good read in regards to the Qabalah:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defragmentation

Hinduism I am researching and can give these as recommended books:
Ramayana
Mahabharata
Bhagavad Gita
Yoga Sutras of Patanjali
Upanishads
Vedas
Puranas
Kama Sutra

The reason for the title of this thread, Unknown Unknowns, was I never would have gotten into these ideas (except maybe Hinduism) without this forum and the thoughts from this forum.

I know a little about the school of Hindu thought called Advaita Vedanta. If you have any questions...

The Ramayana contains "Yoga Vasishta". https://www.ekamvitara.org/documentfiles/93.pdf
This text contains the essence of Advaitic thought. Personally I'm not too interested in the dogmatic aspects of Hinduism, just the practical angles that can be explored for oneself.

Are there other Unknown Unknowns people should be aware of?

Contradiction in terms, man. Contradiction in terms. Consider that the mind and its ideas/movement is not the origin of perception but the arbiter. This becomes apparent when practicing meditation. The mind is more like a pair of tinted glasses.
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: Unknown Unknowns

Postby Takamba » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:06 am

The damage is done already, keep going into equilibrium and you will master it out. Oh, and I'm glad you know there are things that you don't even know you don't know because you now know you don't even know the things.

That's a perfect start. Better keep going or else....

all is black
all is black
all is black
all is black
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Re: Unknown Unknowns

Postby seekinghga » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:22 am

Takamba wrote:The damage is done already, keep going into equilibrium and you will master it out. Oh, and I'm glad you know there are things that you don't even know you don't know because you now know you don't even know the things.

That's a perfect start. Better keep going or else....

all is black
all is black
all is black
all is black

lol. wut?
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: Unknown Unknowns

Postby Hermitas » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:53 am

seekinghga wrote:
Takamba wrote:The damage is done already, keep going into equilibrium and you will master it out. Oh, and I'm glad you know there are things that you don't even know you don't know because you now know you don't even know the things.

That's a perfect start. Better keep going or else....

all is black
all is black
all is black
all is black

lol. wut?



Otherwise you think you know everything and shut yourself down to new and open experiences of the universe... becoming black. Or that's how I took it.

He may want to answer for himself.
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Re: Unknown Unknowns

Postby seekinghga » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:00 am

Hermitas wrote:Otherwise you think you know everything and shut yourself down to new and open experiences of the universe... becoming black. Or that's how I took it.

He may want to answer for himself.

OK... Umm, how me being a self-proclaimed, blinders wearing know-it-all could be derived from my opinions is beyond me. Considering that I post very little online anymore, it seems like an awful lot of pent-up motivation to be let loose on such an innocuous post.
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: Unknown Unknowns

Postby Takamba » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:38 am

The damage worsens, but that is no odds. It's all a matter of equilibrium. Dart to the right, dart to the left - the path is ever forward. The message was "keep going." You almost missed it.

The damage is done already, keep going into equilibrium and you will master it out. Oh, and I'm glad you know there are things that you don't even know you don't know because you now know you don't even know the things.

This passage was in agreement with you and the title of your thread. It was an answer to someone who posted to the effect that the concept was a contradiction of itself (it is not, it is psychological reality - there are things you know that you know you know, things you know that you don't even know you know, things you don't know but you know you don't know them and things you don't know and you have no possible way of knowing from your current vantage that they even exist (illustration: a man has a plan to go to a building and walk in and sit down, but he hasn't been there before and he doesn't know the door is locked. He knows he doesn't know the condition and status of the door and the lock. He knows what he doesn't know, so he has some sort of preparedness for either eventuality. What he also doesn't know, and he doesn't know he doesn't know this, because nothing has led him to ask the right question to find this, he doesn't know that the address he was given is wrong).


That's a perfect start.


It sure is. Nothing more really could be expected at this point, and as long as the arrow faces the proper direction, and the arrow is followed with continued action, all is as it should be. Continue....

Better keep going or else....



or else....

all is black
all is black
all is black
all is black

This was explained correctly. The throne of the Black Brother is that of an Adept who believes he can stop the Universe and all will be right.
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Re: Unknown Unknowns

Postby seekinghga » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:42 am

Takamba wrote:The damage worsens, but that is no odds. It's all a matter of equilibrium. Dart to the right, dart to the left - the path is ever forward. The message was "keep going." You almost missed it.

The damage is done already, keep going into equilibrium and you will master it out. Oh, and I'm glad you know there are things that you don't even know you don't know because you now know you don't even know the things.

This passage was in agreement with you and the title of your thread.

This isn't my thread. Umm.... It's all fine and good that you applied your words to your own assumptions. Now apply them to what I said which you feel justifies them, Takamba.
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: Unknown Unknowns

Postby seekinghga » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:34 am

Hermitas wrote:Otherwise you think you know everything and shut yourself down to new and open experiences of the universe... becoming black.

Let me ask this. Is this what you think of me, Hermitas? ++++Transparency
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: Unknown Unknowns

Postby Takamba » Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:01 pm

seekinghga wrote:
Takamba wrote:The damage worsens, but that is no odds. It's all a matter of equilibrium. Dart to the right, dart to the left - the path is ever forward. The message was "keep going." You almost missed it.

The damage is done already, keep going into equilibrium and you will master it out. Oh, and I'm glad you know there are things that you don't even know you don't know because you now know you don't even know the things.

This passage was in agreement with you and the title of your thread.

This isn't my thread. Umm.... It's all fine and good that you applied your words to your own assumptions. Now apply them to what I said which you feel justifies them, Takamba.


Did I quote you? Did I mention you? No. I'm still sticking to the original thread except now. Now, what was it you said that I'm supposed to what what what with? Project or overly self-focus much?
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Re: Unknown Unknowns

Postby Takamba » Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:04 pm

seekinghga wrote:
Hermitas wrote:Otherwise you think you know everything and shut yourself down to new and open experiences of the universe... becoming black.

Let me ask this. Is this what you think of me, Hermitas? ++++Transparency


Again, getting off topic (hijack much?). This wasn't about you, this is the explanation of what a black brother does - they shut themselves off, having determined they've reached some finish line or another or something. They then think they should be allowed to turn around and witness all their followers (no, doesn't usually happen). They become black, having absorbed all light and refusing it further momentum, they become Black.

This isn't about you.
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Re: Unknown Unknowns

Postby seekinghga » Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:05 pm

Takamba wrote:Did I quote you? Did I mention you? No. I'm still sticking to the original thread except now. Now, what was it you said that I'm supposed to what what what with? Project or overly self-focus much?

OK! Thanks. :) LD330, there you go. All of Takamba's words are at you. Have fun!

PS
I don't give a sh!t. Bye bye.
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: Unknown Unknowns

Postby Takamba » Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:31 pm

seekinghga wrote:
Takamba wrote:Did I quote you? Did I mention you? No. I'm still sticking to the original thread except now. Now, what was it you said that I'm supposed to what what what with? Project or overly self-focus much?

OK! Thanks. :) LD330, there you go. All of Takamba's words are at you. Have fun!

PS
I don't give a sh!t. Bye bye.



May your Microcosm reflect accurately your Macrocosm, and vice versa.
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Re: Unknown Unknowns

Postby Hermitas » Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:41 pm

seekinghga wrote:
Hermitas wrote:Otherwise you think you know everything and shut yourself down to new and open experiences of the universe... becoming black.

Let me ask this. Is this what you think of me, Hermitas? ++++Transparency


No. I didn't intend to imply anything at all. I just meant to translate Takamba. I was proud that I understood it, I guess. [transparency]

It seemed to me to be a relatively standard kind of "warning" of something to watch out for along the path. In fact, the intent of the original post seemed to me to me "good job, keep it up, or else watch out for this."

Seems like a misunderstanding to me.

Let's just all let it blow over. Check back tomorrow or something.

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Re: Unknown Unknowns

Postby LD330 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:05 pm

I understand what Takamba is saying. There are things we don’t know until they find us. No one conception of the universe is always correct, or useful in every case.

I read this book Neuroscience of Personality recently. One of the parts of the brain, the Fp2 or “Process Manager,” controls what we are able to manage at a time. Many people interested in technology, for example, get burnt out because their process manager cannot keep up with all the new developments.

It’s also involved in sadness and introspection. It sounded like the Moon tarot card.

The reason I started this thread was to get some insight on what to look for that has helped others. I was listening to a talk that said you can get a lot of Known Unknowns from books, but Unknown Unknowns often have to come from mentors.

I don’t think I’ve ever had a real mentor. But I learn a lot from people online and from books. Many people hold treasures of information.
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Re: Unknown Unknowns

Postby Takamba » Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:27 pm

The old adage, "When the student is ready, the [insert word of choice here] will come." This "mentor" does not even have to be directly skilled in the system of the A.'.A.'., or any specifically understood system (as understood by you), but could indeed come from an entirely different world than you. Your next mentor could be someone who comes from your place of employment and they teach you all the ins-and-outs of your business, including the people politics parts, the technical parts, the social impact parts, and everything else that seems to make them great at what they are doing and whom they appear to be. They may use a different language than the new languages of magick and occultism and Thelema that you've acquired, with a few of the right words perhaps popped in from time to time, but they are mentors non-the-less, and they may show you the way of your own particular "right path." Who knows? Only you and your Angel until you are capable of declaring it to the world. To my way of thinking, there is a great danger in going it alone as you have described, but also there is that danger in all cases.

This thread itself points to the very dangers of how we can misinterpret the words. As simple as that and at the very least, someone had a bad morning. Imagine that mistake while tampering with Liber Samekh. So yes, a mentor is of value, and until you achieve K&C, when you can have no one who holds a candle to the HGA, a mentor is not bad advice. Even a bad mentor is going to teach you something.

But the question comes down to "how do I even know I'm doing it right?" Yeah, that's the advertisement for the mentor system alright. And it isn't wrong, but it shouldn't hold you back. The instructions are all there in black and white, the practices can be done and they should to some degree be self-correcting, and from that we should be able to learn to watch for the need for correction (that's the real difference between black and white right there imo), and gather the hints as we go and re-go-over the old things too (that is, don't just read a book, and don't just don't just read it only once, don't just read it read it multiple times over after and after and then after that too to see how you've changed) (yes, written that way on purpose).

Yes. Keep going. That's the only real advice. All else is color filtered for your entertainment. View the kaleidoscope of things as you will. Do what thou wilt.
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Re: Unknown Unknowns

Postby Corvinae » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:08 am

"Any ideas or recommendations, of things that rewarded you or turned out to be good personal investments, would be greatly appreciated."

One of the most rewarding things that I have ever done was to take the same walk, everyday, at the same time and notice how different the path is everytime.

Meaning mundanely.....observe nature and its unfolding.
Love is the Law.
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