Am I wasting My Strength

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Am I wasting My Strength

Postby Nineborn » Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:22 pm

Id like some opinions on this:

I know that my True Will is tied up with recording and producing music.

I require money to execute my will (gear, studio costs for mixing/mastering).

Im also extremely frustrated by depending on others for housing, and very low paying, miserable jobs i've worked my whole life....eating my time and draining my vitality.

So last year i decided to learn computer programming. Strictly for the money, and the freedom it would provide.

It's tough stuff, and does not come naturally to me. But I do not know what else to do to move forward in life. I dont mind the challenge of learning, per se, im very stubborn. But I wasn't born to program, lets put it that way.

It doesnt feel right, aquiring this new skill at 32, when i spent my entire youth and adulthood refining my musical craft effortlessly and with joy.

DO you feel my approach is foolish, according to thelemic principles? Am i wasting my strength taking on something which doesn't excite me, strictly for money to do what I really want to do?
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Re: Am I wasting My Strength

Postby Takamba » Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:32 pm

yes
"If we are to have Beauty and Love, whether in begetting children or works of art, or what not, we must have perfect freedom to act, without fear or shame or any falsity."
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Re: Am I wasting My Strength

Postby Nineborn » Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:33 pm

Takamba wrote:yes


go on?
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Re: Am I wasting My Strength

Postby Takamba » Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:41 pm

Now that you are over that shock.....



If you're true will is to acquire money, it won't be a problem. My theory has money just flowing under the streets and I'll grab some from time to time when I want it. But that's just me.

You want to be a musician? Oooh I bet that just stung. You are a musician. I should know better than to be so unempathetic and ask that. Of course you want to be a musician. :lol:

seriously. If it is your True Will to be a musician, what does money have to do with that? You say you need equipment? Sure, a musical instrument. I guess if you want to be a specific musician, electric rock, you need electricity. So yes, money is required for that. But is there a law or code or some passage in one of the Holy Books I'm not aware of that says we have to also be paid for doing our True Wills.

Honestly I question if this is your "True" Will. It probably very much is your True will to play musical instruments - but if you aren't making money at it, there's no indication that that is your true will also. Maybe you're supposed to play musical instruments and lure people into discussions about buying new shoes.

Again, I kid. I mean new cars.

Okay, maybe used cars.

No, seriously. There's also this - just because you think you are good at it, maybe you're just not "there" yet at the other natures of your will surrounding musicianship. Meanwhile, getting a "day job" to pay the bills and acquire more things might be useful.

Or maybe being poor is also your true will. Can you consider that? Maybe you're going to be the next David Bowie, who reported that for 10 years he lived on basically 10 dollars a week thanks to his first music contract. Sure, he lived in motels, tore out the walls, had accountants pay for it all, but otherwise he had nothing of his own. He was Ziggy Stardust or Aladdin Sane or some sich and just pushed like a diamond dog from one venue to another. He didn't get real money until the mid 80s said he. So maybe you are meant for all that greatness too! You're just not willing to see it.

Yes. If you're in it for the money, you're wasting your strengths. If you need money, do what you must.

I'm sure this hasn't been helpful.
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Re: Am I wasting My Strength

Postby Nineborn » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:14 pm

read my other comment i deleted this one
Last edited by Nineborn on Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Am I wasting My Strength

Postby Nineborn » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:36 pm

Takamba wrote:Now that you are over that shock.....



If you're true will is to acquire money, it won't be a problem. My theory has money just flowing under the streets and I'll grab some from time to time when I want it. But that's just me.

You want to be a musician? Oooh I bet that just stung. You are a musician. I should know better than to be so unempathetic and ask that. Of course you want to be a musician. :lol:



seriously. If it is your True Will to be a musician, what does money have to do with that? You say you need equipment? Sure, a musical instrument. I guess if you want to be a specific musician, electric rock, you need electricity. So yes, money is required for that. But is there a law or code or some passage in one of the Holy Books I'm not aware of that says we have to also be paid for doing our True Wills.



well it would be nice, sure. BUt i didnt really reference getting paid in my question, directly from music. Although that would be great. Money simply to live without restrictions on my energy and time. Isnt that the whole goal? To do our will without restricions? To emancipate ourselves and make nature obey us at our pleasure? I dont know of anything else that my talents and preoccupations could suggest is my will. I was drawn to it from and early age, and clearly had an aptitude I inherited from other lifetimes. I was prodigy-like at a pretty young age and could wow just about anyone who heard me, which is still the case. My life always flowed when others absorbed my abilities, either live or in recorded format. So my estimation is that this is my true will. And my ideas have gotten more and more sophisticated as ive matured, but my means have not been consistent to do the many things I want to do with this surge of creativity in me. Many stillborn ideas just floating around, and it is extremely frustrating...because the things that have obstructed my desires (TW?) are a recurring theme. Poverty, dependence of girlfriends and family for money and shelter, or jobs which i cant seem to keep due to some combination of poor performance and a bad attitude to tohers who treat me with disrespect. Call me crazy i find that hard to cope with!


Takamba wrote:No, seriously. There's also this - just because you think you are good at it, maybe you're just not "there" yet at the other natures of your will surrounding musicianship. Meanwhile, getting a "day job" to pay the bills and acquire more things might be useful.


This i have definitely considered. I can make peace with trhat, that perhaps i dont have what it takes just yet to make the absolute most of giving my talent to the world...but dont know what "IT" is that im missing. Work ethic, in areas unrelated to my music? Thats the basis of my question here.

Takamba wrote:Or maybe being poor is also your true will. Can you consider that? Maybe you're going to be the next David Bowie, who reported that for 10 years he lived on basically 10 dollars a week thanks to his first music contract. Sure, he lived in motels, tore out the walls, had accountants pay for it all, but otherwise he had nothing of his own. He was Ziggy Stardust or Aladdin Sane or some sich and just pushed like a diamond dog from one venue to another. He didn't get real money until the mid 80s said he. So maybe you are meant for all that greatness too! You're just not willing to see it.

Yes. If you're in it for the money, you're wasting your strengths. If you need money, do what you must.

I'm sure this hasn't been helpful.


Im in it for maximizing my potential, and if money flows from that and sustains me to do greater and greater things, that is the ideal ive imagined. I dont really know what other point there is to life. Ive had love, sex, surplus of money at times...i know money wont make me happy. I know no woman can fulfill me. I dont know what is left besides leaving some kind of legacy of the thing that has captured the majority of my focus in this existence..which is my playing/composing/recording. I feel like if i could just give it more freely i would be supported and my life would become harmonius and id be in the right lane...that crowley spoke of so much. Do your will and no other shall say nay...right?
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Re: Am I wasting My Strength

Postby Takamba » Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:03 am

I personally believe there are a lot of mistakes people make in the "search for my true will" thing. Funny thing, when you find it, it's always been right in front of you.

No. I don't mean musicianship. That may or may not be something. But let's consider some thoughts here.... just consider.... let's not say yet I've ascertained this as absolute...

but go North my friend!

okay... what? Which north? The sun rises on my East, it sets on my West, so North must be "that way!" but my compass (magnetic) says something different. So find "True North."

That to me describes "true" will. Not "predetermined will that leads to the correct finish line" etc etc about life, not some mythology of "legacy" (I'm glad you brought that word up), but "do what is true to you right here, right now, this very instant, the next, and every instant that follows." Then you have found and acted out your True Will. Who knows where that's going to lead you?

Now.... let's step backward a bit and re-examine the causes perhaps of this True Will conundrum I'm witnessing. I'll be making a few assumptions, so feel free to correct me if need be.

Believing in reincarnation, as many Thelemites (so-called) do, you believe also in Karma (as every human should). Cause and effect. Now, I know there's a lot of disdain among Thelemites (so-called) on the Internet about the Theosophical society, but I don't think there should be. I mention this because the best examination of karma and reincarnation I've ever read comes from the Theosophical Society's writings. The karma of one's previous life (note, not plural, but singular in this case though one may have had countless past lives) leads to the birth of this life, with the conditions of the birth of this life (parents, location, economic status at one's start, inclinations of DNA which may mean musicality or not, so on and son). It's the momentum of being flung from mom's vagina! That's the past life karma link. There it ends. There it becomes this life karma. As such, this does not inform me to believe that bankers are born bankers, they just happened to get in tune with their good graces with money and became bankers. Same thing with musicians. Same thing with janitors. So on.

True Will is a direction, not a destination. You have musicianship, I have musicianship - which one of should become a millionaire because of it? Both of us? Or is there something else to consider - the fact that I do not desire fame? Does the fact that you desire fame make you require fame? Does it indicate that it is actually your "true will?" I don't know. I'm not inclined to believe that desire points to much more than desire - but to each it may be different.

Legacy is the hallmark of the Christian tradition. It is a jewel in the crown of the Ruach, legacy. I'm working on this concept myself right now, legacy. Do I owe it to the world to become famous? Am i supposed to publish an as yet unread manuscript and change the world? Or maybe I'm not, maybe that's actually just going to happen anyway and I'm one of dozens of people currently capable of writing it. It just so happens that all the natural science I've been guided by has lead to this conclusion and it may appear new to this world but it actually is just the obvious next conclusion to be reached. Is Newton more important than his theory of gravity? Wouldn't his theory of gravity been discovered even if it wasn't by him? I believe so. I believe that this is the confusion called "universal will" and "individual will."

It's still a meditation for me, so forgive my incoherence. My point is, right now it is probably best for you to focus on the small, and let what happens happen as a natural next result - then you will see "true" will. Not forced will.

No. I do not believe I am here to command nature to obey me - I have learned and people have witnessed with awe that it merely appears as if nature is being commanded to obey me. I just went "wow" as well as they did.
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Re: Am I wasting My Strength

Postby Nineborn » Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:39 am

See, all my readings of crowley point to the will as being a distinct thing that one can recognize. Ive heard alot of argument for the what you describe as an unclear moment to moment will.

heres a quote from crowley:

"Understand clearly this: that if you are sure of your Will, and sure of your means, then any thoughts or actions which are contrary to those means are contrary also to that Will."

also:

"The great bond of all bonds is ignorance. How shall a man be free to act if he know not his own purpose? You must therefore first of all discover which star of all the stars you are, your relation to the other stars about you, and your relation to, and identity with, the Whole."

All this, to me, clearly indicates that we should clarify what our purpose for being here is and then do that. Im not as big a fan of the whole moment to moment idea, although that is implied in doing your will no matter what.

It seems like AC repeated again and again that the discovery of the will is a point event and that we shoul adjust our conduct to bring about the fulfillment of it. After all, he defined his own true will as "to teach the next step" or "spread the wisdom of Thelema".

Look at this quote:

"Here Nature herself be your preacher: for in every phenomenon of force and motion doth she proclaim aloud this truth. Even in so small a matter as driving a nail into a plank, hear this same sermon. Your nail must be hard, smooth, fine-pointed, or it will not move swiftly in the direction willed. Imagine then a nail of tinder-wood with twenty points–it is verily no longer a nail. Yet nigh all mankind are like unto this. They wish a dozen different careers; and the force which might have been sufficient to attain eminence in one is wasted on the others: they are null.

Here then let me make open confession, and say thus: though I pledged myself almost in boyhood to the Great Work, though to my aid came the most puissant forces in the whole Universe to hold me to it, though habit itself now constraineth me in the right direction, yet I have not fulfilled my Will: I turn aside daily from the appointed task. I waver. I falter. I lag."

What you're arguing for is that you don't know if you're a nail, a screw, a thumbtack...etc... but whatever lets see what happens. How can you be effective if you dont know what the totality of your being is suited for?
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Re: Am I wasting My Strength

Postby Nineborn » Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:49 am

one more quote:

"Search yourselves cunningly, I pray you, analysing your inmost thoughts. And first you shall discard all those gross obvious hindrances to your Will: idleness, foolish friendships, waste employments or enjoyments, I will not enumerate the conspirators against the welfare of your State."

The waste employments. Thats the one that spoke to me.
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Re: Am I wasting My Strength

Postby Takamba » Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:51 pm

Nineborn wrote:one more quote:

"Search yourselves cunningly, I pray you, analysing your inmost thoughts. And first you shall discard all those gross obvious hindrances to your Will: idleness, foolish friendships, waste employments or enjoyments, I will not enumerate the conspirators against the welfare of your State."

The waste employments. Thats the one that spoke to me.


I understand where you get your belief that True Will is a one-off answer. It is understandable and possibly in a bygone day, it was closer to the truth than it is today - but today we see a vast movement of career types that never once existed before, and tomorrow you will soon see a similar truth - we cannot account for this if we are going to be a single entity from birth to death with only one "divine" purpose. The will that is true will accept new course more easily than one that is fixed (rigid).

So, eliminate idleness (but what if that is your true will some one may ask), foolish friendships (how does one know these if one is also a fool), waste employments or enjoyments (what are those, if not possibly also idleness and foolishness). Of course, he did say these would be "gross obvious" to you. Are they?

Crowley did not attain his True Will says he. Then what are you to make of his direction toward discovering it? I'll let you judge for yourself.

Nineborn wrote:What you're arguing for is that you don't know if you're a nail, a screw, a thumbtack...etc... but whatever lets see what happens. How can you be effective if you dont know what the totality of your being is suited for?


Oh no. I know I'm a writer for I can write. I know I'm a dance for I can dance. I know I'm an explorer, teacher, student, lover, warrior, salesman, psychologist, magician, and all of some very many things. I know that it is my true will to live the life of a Thelemite, to promulgate the Law of Thelema by using ordinary means and ordinary language and personal expressions (why only teach occultists?????). I know this - I do this - I need no reward from men to keep doing this.

I have various means of earning money. I have no need of the things that some people spend their money on. Those things are not in my true will. I have no question if what I do today is in line with my truth. I also seek not a lust of result in this (there's the crux, eh).


Nineborn wrote:See, all my readings of crowley point to the will as being a distinct thing that one can recognize. Ive heard alot of argument for the what you describe as an unclear moment to moment will.


Now keep this in mind; in all your readings you've interpreted from that point of view and reached the conclusion that that point of view is going to reach. Now let me show you other interpretations of the same words but from starting with a different point of view.....
Nineborn wrote:heres a quote from crowley:

"Understand clearly this: that if you are sure of your Will, and sure of your means, then any thoughts or actions which are contrary to those means are contrary also to that Will."


The above is true in every case. Whether what we mean by True Will is a one-off belief about my divine right and responsibility to be Jimmy Page instead of my given name or the continuous exploration of the path ahead always keeping my footing and compass true, the fact remains the same: any thing not aligned is misaligned. True. But... inherent in the continuous passage model is the ability to constantly strive with equilibrium whereas to want to be Jimmy Page is to suddenly invoke the impossible - for only Jimmy Page can be Jimmy Page. And as a musician, if you aren't thinking about your current song but instead thinking about the effluence of cred Jimmy Page would have with it..... well, then you aren't being true. If seeking the one-off answer of "True Will," you are more prone to be mistaken than if seeking the "right here right now" true will.

Nineborn wrote:also:

"The great bond of all bonds is ignorance. How shall a man be free to act if he know not his own purpose? You must therefore first of all discover which star of all the stars you are, your relation to the other stars about you, and your relation to, and identity with, the Whole."


First, discover which star of all stars you are. Yes! How to? By fantasy? By mere trial and error? By adopting someone else's stardom as your own? Maybe - but more than likely by following Crowley's program of first stripping away all those things and then starting new and fresh and daily finding your relations to other relations and the Whole. None of what you quote dictates a one-off answer. All of what you quote, I point out here successfully, can be read in both contexts equally. And if you ask me, Crowley would be able to read in them both contexts equally.

Nineborn wrote:Look at this quote:

"Here Nature herself be your preacher: for in every phenomenon of force and motion doth she proclaim aloud this truth. Even in so small a matter as driving a nail into a plank, hear this same sermon. Your nail must be hard, smooth, fine-pointed, or it will not move swiftly in the direction willed. Imagine then a nail of tinder-wood with twenty points–it is verily no longer a nail. Yet nigh all mankind are like unto this. They wish a dozen different careers; and the force which might have been sufficient to attain eminence in one is wasted on the others: they are null.

Here then let me make open confession, and say thus: though I pledged myself almost in boyhood to the Great Work, though to my aid came the most puissant forces in the whole Universe to hold me to it, though habit itself now constraineth me in the right direction, yet I have not fulfilled my Will: I turn aside daily from the appointed task. I waver. I falter. I lag."


Be a nail, but the nail does not decide which house (bird or whore) he will be part of. You seem to think you need to adjust to determining which house to be a nail for. No. Be a nail. Be a nail today and be a nail tomorrow. The hammer may find you or not.

If you are doing your will, and if you are correct that guitars are certainly involved (just to choose one instrument as an example), then do that and nothing else (but that doesn't mean always, for you must eat, drink, poop, sleep, walk, dress, clean, say hello, etc). What is meant is not "for the rest of your life you are nothing but a musician," it means "while you are a musician, you are nothing else - you are not a money maker, you are not a husband, you are not a dog." Then you find all your answers coming to you more easily about this subject.

Do your will. Don't just think about doing your will. That's one. Do nothing but your will. Don't do someone else's will. Don't do something else's will. Just your will. In small things and large. Continued practice of doing only your will (and not someone or something else's will) will train you better. Do the little wills today, the big wills will be clearer from this. Thou hast no right but to do thy will. Again, not to think it, not to wish it, not to keep talking about it, but to do it - that is your only right. And your will. That is your only right. You don't have the right to do someone else's will (re mention of Jimmy Page earlier). And other people do not do your will for you either - you have no right but to do your will. Do that and no other shall say nay - this does not mean that someone who is foolish won't ever get in your way in life, unless of course it is absolutely true that all you are doing is your will. That is the truest test I've found, if people simply say "well, of course, that's what you're doing...." and they don't bother you about it because why would they? If your will isn't interfering with their wills, then there's no conflict - but this won't be achieved on a "one-off" answer to the question; it must be answered daily.

I think I'm over talking now. It is complicated if we dissect it to death, but simple if we just do it.

Go back to "it is my will to learn to be a musician" and see if that changes things. :)
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Re: Am I wasting My Strength

Postby LD330 » Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:20 am

I can relate to trying to program for the money but not having your heart quite in it.

I've been learning web development for a couple of years now and while I am better than I was a couple of years ago, there's still not the immediacy of feeling I can provide real value for someone doing it.

I mostly tried doing it because my brother was able to make his living doing it, and I had no clue what to do. Though I do love the Silicon Valley programming, future-is-now aesthetic and values.

I'm trying to do a bunch of things at once too, like learn graphic design and copywriting and a bunch of things instead of focusing on one thing. If I'm focusing on one thing it's getting my financial education ala Robert Kiyosaki.

Doubtless that will help even musicianship if you can figure out how money and business work.

Nothing seems like an immediate-term solution though. It's weird trying to pick something up and feeling like you're getting nowhere even after a few years.
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Re: Am I wasting My Strength

Postby Takamba » Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:32 pm

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law."
"What is thy will?"
"To be a musician."
1. Furnish yourself with the earth of earth of this intent. Instrument, means, method of craft.
2. Be fervent and disciplined toward it - it is your new religion.
3. Dedicate as much time and effort as you intend to be respected back with karma for (ex. you want it to be your full time job, make it your full time job; aka, dress for the job you desire).
4. You will be tested, you will be tried: so study study study to keep the stride.
{at this point I would expect you would be adrift in the success of accomplishing your will that the next steps would come only naturally to you}

I'm not sure of any other way.
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