Non-Binary or Trans Persons in Gender Specific Ritual Roles

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Non-Binary or Trans Persons in Gender Specific Ritual Roles

Postby Hermitas » Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:38 am

WITHOUT discussing OTO politics or personalities...

Does a Priest or Priestess in a ritual need to have the traditionally corresponding male or female sex organs for the work to remain magically effective? I’m torn between thinking in terms of personal inclusivity and thinking in terms of correct magical correspondences.

What do you think?

What have you experienced?
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Re: Non-Binary or Trans Persons in Gender Specific Ritual Roles

Postby Takamba » Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:50 pm

With the recent discussions taking place, that which I've believed for several years about (probably) EVERY single "order" of Thelema..... I'll stand silent on that for now....

No. Your undergarments do not need to match your chosen ritual role. That would just be silly. Now, maybe if you were a Christian or other such order, yes - gays and trans are against your religious views and need to be found a way to conform. If not, then you are not a Christian or such other system - but we are not a such system, we are a system where Every man and every woman is a sovereign self-determining royalty or god (dependent on how they manage to get past the gatekeepers). As such, self-determined and all, I might fancy myself a daughter one day and a king the next. I'm not against this choice in anyone.

What I do take concern with is stasis. You know what stasis is, right? It's when everything stands still, its when you identify yourself and... wait... gasp... you what??? CARVED IT IN STONE!!!!!

Oh the death knell of change!
"If we are to have Beauty and Love, whether in begetting children or works of art, or what not, we must have perfect freedom to act, without fear or shame or any falsity."
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Re: Non-Binary or Trans Persons in Gender Specific Ritual Roles

Postby Takamba » Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:57 pm

oh another thing

and it should deserve lots of meditation

is there "correct" correspondence of every plane? Aren't we all still experimenting on that? Is a man dressing up as his wife's fantasy girlfriend not a proper correspondence for that evening, and her dressing up as the female letter carrier you fancy the next evening equally proper?

I think there is great danger is "correctness" and "right way." There's effective, more effective, as effective as expected, and most effective - but all things are effective. Yes?
"If we are to have Beauty and Love, whether in begetting children or works of art, or what not, we must have perfect freedom to act, without fear or shame or any falsity."
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Re: Non-Binary or Trans Persons in Gender Specific Ritual Roles

Postby Frater AOV » Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:45 pm

93

both gender functions exist in potentia at all times for each individual. this is a pretty straightforward interpretation of the 0=2 formula from AL I:xxviii. the activity between the Priest and Priestess describes an internal process, so there is really no harm in owners of any kind of genitalia acting as any officer whatsoever.

it is fitting in the context of a ritual drama for the outward appearances to communicate the gendered function specifically symbolized by the role in question. but this is essentially a formality. any old toothpick or or stick of cinnamon can be used as a Wand so long as it is prepared correctly, i.e. purified and consecrated to that nature. this is the same principle.
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Re: Non-Binary or Trans Persons in Gender Specific Ritual Roles

Postby seekinghga » Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:22 pm

Intention, and internalized intention, is the key. Period.
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: Non-Binary or Trans Persons in Gender Specific Ritual Roles

Postby seekinghga » Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:39 am

It is wise for an Initiate to more and more perceive themselves as not any one Being, but as a Mode Of Expression.
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: Non-Binary or Trans Persons in Gender Specific Ritual Roles

Postby Hego » Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:04 pm

Political correctness in rituals? Cancer in one plane can spread to other planes as it seems.

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"Who art thou that dost float and fly and dive and soar in the inane? Behold, these many fons have passed; whence camest thou? Whither wilt thou go?
And laughing I chid him, saying: No whence! No whither!
The swan being silent, he answered: Then, if with no goal, why this eternal journey?
And I laid my head against the Head of the Swan, and laughed, saying: Is there not joy ineffable in this aimless winging? Is there not weariness and impatience for who would attain to some goal?"
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Re: Non-Binary or Trans Persons in Gender Specific Ritual Roles

Postby seekinghga » Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:56 am

Hego wrote:Political correctness in rituals? Cancer in one plane can spread to other planes as it seems.

:P WELL?

The body and the mind are the definition of the divide between self and other. Consider that.
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: Non-Binary or Trans Persons in Gender Specific Ritual Roles

Postby Takamba » Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:36 pm

Label, label, everyone a label
Freakin' out the media, breakin' my mind
Be this, don't be that, can't you i-den-ti-fy?


:321: :321: :321: :321:
"If we are to have Beauty and Love, whether in begetting children or works of art, or what not, we must have perfect freedom to act, without fear or shame or any falsity."
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Re: Non-Binary or Trans Persons in Gender Specific Ritual Roles

Postby seekinghga » Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:59 am

Takamba wrote:Label, label, everyone a label
Freakin' out the media, breakin' my mind
Be this, don't be that, can't you i-den-ti-fy?


:321: :321: :321: :321:

Takamba, the original sixth member of the Five Man Electric Band. ;)
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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