Aeon switches

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Aeon switches

Postby milkBoxx » Mon May 19, 2014 2:32 pm

I know that I've heard different opinions regarding the time between Aeon's.
From being a matter of hundreds of years to 2,000 years (or even 30,000 years!).
My question is, which is it? And what is the source of information that provides a concise answer (if one even
exists in the first place). Frankly, I'm confused on this subject as I'm sure others are as well.
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Re: Aeon switches

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Mon May 19, 2014 2:48 pm

There are different kinds of Aeons.

Crowley, for example, used the word in a few different ways. One was as a synonym of "age" in the same way one might refer to the "age of innocence". One example was his metaphor of the new "Aeon" that a child reaches when he/she sprouts his/her first tooth (and enters the "Age of Teeth").

For "Aeon" in the sense of the Aeon of Isis, Osiris, and Horus there is no fixed length of time. The Isis Aeon would span many thousands of years, the Osiris Aeon just a few thousand years, and as-yet-unknown length of time for the Horus Aeon.

For "Aeon" in the sense of an Astrological Age, then it's about the precession of the earth through the 12 zodiac signs. That takes about 25,920 years, or around 2,160 years per sign. So the Age of Pisces spans (roughly) from the 3rd to the 24th centuries, A.D.
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Re: Aeon switches

Postby Hermitas » Tue May 20, 2014 5:12 am

Anybody got a comparative chart/timeline for these?

- referring to the Aeons of Isis, Osiris, and Horus versus the zodiacal ages, perhaps along with the origin dates of various religions?
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Aeon switches

Postby Hermitas » Tue May 20, 2014 5:54 am

I got some time today. I'll try to Publisher one together for us to play with.
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Re: Aeon switches

Postby milkBoxx » Tue May 20, 2014 6:56 am

Sounds great! I would like to hear Jim's opinion as well when he reads all this :D
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Re: Aeon switches

Postby Hermitas » Tue May 20, 2014 7:56 am

Okay,

So far, I have the Vernal Equinox that began the Age of Pisces at March 21, 222 CE, 10:50 UT.
Calculation Source: http://www.beda.cz/~jirkaj/seasons/seasons.pdf
Method: Plugged in equinox dates into the sidereal chart generator at Astro.com until I got a precise 00deg 00m Aries (which is still technically Aries), and then I went forward one year to the next vernal equinox, yielding the above date, time, and position of the Sun in 29deg 59m Pisces (the first vernal equinox in this precession where the Sun actually is in Pisces).

Likewise, I have the Vernal Equinox that begins the Age of Aquarius at March 20, 2377 CE, 16:18 UT.
Calculation Source: http://ns1763.ca/equinox/vern2188-2547.html
Method: Same. The above date and time represent the first vernal equinox of this precession in which the Sun is actually in Aquarius - 29deg 59m.

This yields a period of 2155 years for the Age of Pisces. The number of years in an astrological age is usually estimated at 2160, so I'm betting there's some variation age to age (?), otherwise we end up 60 years short for the length of the precession itself, 25,860 (12 x 2155) versus 25,920.

Without other input, I'll use these dates for Pisces and Aquarius, but for the rest I'll just estimate by going backward in time using the 2,160 year average increments.

Thoughts?
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Re: Aeon switches

Postby Jim Eshelman » Tue May 20, 2014 8:27 am

Oh, you meant the astrological ages? (Please, let's never use the word "aeon" to apply to astrological ages. They're unrelated phenomena.)

Age of Pisces began in 220 AD. Age of Aquarius in 2376 AD. Age of Aries began 1956 BC.

Timing these to a time of day - even to an exact day - is futile. Minor solar system variations affecting nutation could slightly shift this a few days with no discernible effect from our point in time. But, using current calculations, though, the Age of Aquarius will begin July 4, 2376 AD (coincidentally the 600th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence; but, again, minor solar system variations could shift this easily).
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Re: Aeon switches

Postby Hermitas » Tue May 20, 2014 8:52 am

That helps me as well. Thanks.
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Aeon switches

Postby Hermitas » Tue May 20, 2014 8:55 am

Question: What makes it occur in July? I thought we were going by the Sun's position on the vernal equinoxes.
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Re: Aeon switches

Postby Jim Eshelman » Tue May 20, 2014 9:00 am

Aion wrote:Question: What makes it occur in July? I thought we were going by the vernal equinoxes.

No, the vernal point - the intersection of the ecliptic and the celestial equator (the plane of the earth's equator) - is constantly moving backwards. I was referring to the exact moment that the continually-retrograding point enters Aquarius,
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Re: Aeon switches

Postby Hermitas » Tue May 20, 2014 9:03 am

Awesome to know. Thanks.
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Re: Aeon switches

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Tue May 20, 2014 9:51 am

Here's a little exercise I did with the Astrological Ages. Much of the info is from Wikipedia. The dates are rough estimates.

10,600 BC to 8,400 BC – Leo (Aquarius)

A “Golden Age”, intensely solar. Intense global warming, sea level rise (300 ft), earliest carved oil lamps.

8,400 BC to 6,200 BC – Cancer (Capricorn)

“The Age of the Great Mother”. An age of sea navigation, pottery, early domestication of animals. Widespread mother goddess worship.

6,200 BC to 4,100 BC – Gemini (Sagittarius)

“Age of Communication, Trade”. Development of writing systems. Adoption of the wheel for transportation.

4,100 BC to 1,900 BC – Taurus (Scorpio)

“Age of Agriculture”. Calf worship, the use of the bull for agriculture and architecture. The death-fixation of Ancient Egyptian religion.

1,900 BC to 200 AD – Aries (Libra)

“Age of War”. Ram worship, the rise of the Israelite people, the period of Judges.

200 AD to 2,400 AD – Pisces (Virgo)

“Age of Christianity”. Christian fish, “fishers of men” proselytizing, virgin god.

2,400 AD – 4600 AD – Aquarius (Leo)

Global warming, sea level rise. Age of technological visionaries? (The water bearer, bringing salvation/life/spiritual truth to the masses?)

You can see the shift from the Aeon of Isis to Osiris happen sometime between 6,000 BC and 4,000 BC. The Age of Cancer is still part of the Aeon of Isis, but the seeds of the Aeon of Osiris have been planted, in the form of domestication of animals, building of early cities. The Age of Gemini expands on this with the shift to written communication. By the Age of Taurus, the shift is complete.

Similarly, we can see the Age of Pisces straddling the Aeon of Osiris and Horus. Christianity still dominates, even though people are slowly but surely rejecting the Osiris Aeon's dying redeemer symbolism, and shifting focus to the Child God in so many ways--the spriritual/psychological emphasis on the "divine child within", the emphasis on Baby Jesus over Dying Jesus, the focus on nurturing and protecting our children, etc.
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Re: Aeon switches

Postby Jim Eshelman » Tue May 20, 2014 10:08 am

To repeat: I think any attempt to link the Astrological Ages to the Aeons in any sense at all is an error that will lead to misunderstanding both of them.

Coincidences can be fun, of course. It's important to realize that this is all they are.
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Re: Aeon switches

Postby Hermitas » Tue May 20, 2014 10:45 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:To repeat: I think any attempt to link the Astrological Ages to the Aeons in any sense at all is an error that will lead to misunderstanding both of them.

Coincidences can be fun, of course. It's important to realize that this is all they are.


Well, I think that's one of the things we're trying to get a look at.

I went through puberty in the 80s. Van Halen didn't cause it, but they were a part of it. You know? lol.
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Re: Aeon switches

Postby Hermitas » Tue May 20, 2014 10:56 am

I'm not sure when to really mark the beginning of the Aeon of Osiris. I tried to mark a wide possible beginning date based on reference to some speculation in old threads. I notice Av went back a little further based on what he thinks the beginnings of that aeon might look like.

But the discussion question for anyone interested is... What kind of historical markers would you look for to signify the beginnings of the large scale emergence of the Ruach in humanity?

If nothing else, let the following chart disabuse you of any thinking that the Aeons and the Astrological Ages are in any way aligned.


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Re: Aeon switches

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Tue May 20, 2014 11:09 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:To repeat: I think any attempt to link the Astrological Ages to the Aeons in any sense at all is an error that will lead to misunderstanding both of them.

Coincidences can be fun, of course. It's important to realize that this is all they are.

I hear you, and I wasn't intending to link the Ages with the Aeon in a causative sense.

I thought it was interesting, because looking at the Astrological Ages, I would guess that the Isis-Osiris Aeon shift happened sometime in the Age of Gemini or Taurus. And I've noticed elsewhere that you estimate the Aeon Shift happening sometime around 5,000 years ago, in the Age of Taurus.

A shift in Aeons is an organic thing, where a force for change builds up, reaches a tipping point, and spills over. And the Astrological Ages are like steadily shifting background motifs. I was trying to describe how the two different phenomena play against each other and overlap.

I can see how it might muddy the waters for some, but I hoped it would help understand apparent incongruities, such as why we have Christianity around in this Aeon of Horus (answer: because we're still solidly in the Age of Pisces).
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Re: Aeon switches

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Tue May 20, 2014 11:12 am

Aion wrote:I'm not sure when to really mark the beginning of the Aeon of Osiris. I tried to mark a wide possible beginning date based on reference to some speculation in old threads. I notice Av went back a little further based on what he thinks the beginnings of that aeon might look like.

But the discussion question for anyone interested is... What kind of historical markers would you look for to signify the beginnings of the large scale emergence of the Ruach in humanity?

In this thread, Jim suggests that the tipping point might be where half of the population is farming rather than hunting/gathering, and suggests around 3,000 BCE
http://www.heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?f ... =25#p39871
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Re: Aeon switches

Postby Hermitas » Tue May 20, 2014 11:55 am

That's what I've been pondering.

Society-building. I recently had to take this course where it was emphasized that what truly separates humanity from animals is our ability to build societies. The idea was that in a society, some people make bread, some people make clothes, some people guard the walls, but everyone works together and has their own individual needs met.

To me, that speaks of Osiris in that there is a laying down of the self for the sake of the functioning of the whole - a sort of death and rebirth, a conscious transmutation of drives, if you will. There are rules, and systems, and hierarchies, or else you can go back out into the wilds and chance it there.

That's what speaks to me about it anyway.
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Re: Aeon switches

Postby Hermitas » Tue May 20, 2014 12:15 pm

I will admit it's tempting to try to line it up with the astrological ages... Push that date a little further back so that you have whatever impetus for the Aeon of Osiris occurring at the end of Gemini, right before the fixed sign of Taurus - assume a pattern with the Aeon of Isis and do the same thing at the end of Virgo, right before the fixed sign of Leo...

But what before Isis? And based on what other than my own pattern-making ability projected onto an uncertain and (therefore) malleable historical record?

Anyway. These are the things I wanted to ponder.

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Re: Aeon switches

Postby Jim Eshelman » Tue May 20, 2014 12:22 pm

Ah, so you consider Christianity and Thelema the two, matched Piscean religions. Got it :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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Re: Aeon switches

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Tue May 20, 2014 1:08 pm

I think it's tricky to separate the Osirian from the Piscean elements. The self-surrender, slavery, faith, and salesman/preacher/smooth-talker motifs of Pisces pair pretty well with Osirian symbolism.

I guess the question I grapple with is, "What is both New Aeon and matched to the age of Pisces?"

Christianity and Islam are the two largest Piscean Age religions. I guess Thelema has a couple centuries to catch up and make it into even the top 10 list. But to catch on in this Age, I would think it would need to incorporate Piscean symbolism. It seems most of the Piscean religions are monotheistic. Maybe it won't catch on until the Age of Aquarius. Or maybe it will influence another religion that is timed better to the Age of Aquarius.

Or maybe Thelema isn't really a religion, and it doesn't matter, because the religious symbolism is just like clothing that changes with the seasons.

Apart from all the confusion I might be engendering, it helps distinguish between the Astrological Ages as rotating symbol-sets that dominate the cultural flavor, and Aeons as big shifts from one stage of consciousness to another.
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Re: Aeon switches

Postby Jim Eshelman » Tue May 20, 2014 1:17 pm

Avshalom Binyamin wrote:I guess the question I grapple with is, "What is both New Aeon and matched to the age of Pisces?"

That's one of the basic reasons I think it important not to relate the two in any way. One can say the same thing about any other astrological phase or factor, but this particular one lasts two millennia so it's a little, uh, bigger.

If you want to pursue that line anyway, I think the key is in remembering that it's not just the Pisces Age but, rather, the Virgo-Pisces Age. What possible connection could Yod and Qof have to an aeon centered on Will and Love...?

More broadly, we still have a lot of drama going, and also find in Thelema deep connections to idealism, vision, and even pure religion at the mystical and magical level. (There remains a predominant tendency in humanity to equate all this stuff with both magick and mysticism. For the next four centuries, this is still the strong flow in humanity.)

Even more broadly, Virgo-Pisces is the science-religion polarity.

But I'd rather have the sign of the hawk than of the fish... In time...
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Re: Aeon switches

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Tue May 20, 2014 1:28 pm

Interesting, thanks.
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Re: Aeon switches

Postby Hermitas » Tue May 20, 2014 1:55 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:Ah, so you consider Christianity and Thelema the two, matched Piscean religions. Got it :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


What? Oh because Thelema began in Pisces?

Actually, I was going more along the lines of a prophet-of-the-next appearing at the cusp kind of idea - maybe kind of like the difference between the Queen of Swords and Libra - that kind of idea... only backwards.

Anyway, it's not my favorite theory. Too many holes I can't fill. But there's always the temptation to try to fill holes.
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Re: Aeon switches

Postby Jim Eshelman » Tue May 20, 2014 6:20 pm

I don't buy the cusp idea. In the Sidereal zodiac, there is no evidence I've ever seen of even one second of cusp bleed. It's a hard, sharp line.

And, for all we know, the entirety of the Horus Aeon will be in the Age of Pisces. Maybe yes, maybe no. Maybe thousands years, or maybe we'll have wrapped up this evolution in the next half millennium,
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