advice re: Student phase and testing

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advice re: Student phase and testing

Postby Nephilim » Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:02 am

I've been dancing around with Crowley's writings and other related works for 15 years.

I've been a dilettante from day one, and have been an 'armchair occultist' ever since, and I'm frustrated with that aspect of myself.

I'm striving to seriously and significantly change this, and immerse myself in the world of action and practice, rather than intellectualism, theory and the acquisition of knowledge.

So, I purchased a copy of Jim's book - excellent, btw, but I don't need to tell any of you that - and I'm trying to take it slow rather than just read it "fastfood" style and slap it up on my bookshelf.

I've started reading (re-re-reading!) 777 and the Equinox, obtained copies of most of the other books listed in the syllabus (finding Raja Yoga particularly fascinating) and I'm beginning my studying.

Jim's books notes that the student 'pre'grade' is usually a 3 month period - how has that worked for forum members who've actually put in the time and done the work? Was 3 months sufficient, did you end up studying for longer, etc.

I want to be prepared for the test, but I also know that I have a tendency to not only over-prepare, but to procrastinate and focus on the purely rational aspect of learning information, and never get to the "test what you know' part of life.

Also, I'd like to start the prelim. yoga practices - asana and pranayama, at least, while I'm studying - I think some real-world results may be the anchors I need to stick to the work and not get distracted or discouraged.

Thanks in advance to all who read and or comment on my ramblings!
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Postby 93rdcurrent » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:13 am

I actually took much more than 3 months between my Minerval and 1st degree. Do it at your own pace and don't worry about how long it takes. It is entirely up to your own progress when you should be ready for the next initiation.
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Postby Ophion280 » Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:02 pm

93rdcurrent wrote:I actually took much more than 3 months between my Minerval and 1st degree. Do it at your own pace and don't worry about how long it takes. It is entirely up to your own progress when you should be ready for the next initiation.


93,

your confusing OTO with the AA student period, about which Nephilim was asking. It has been my experience that the student period of AA is to be no less than three months but the length is not stipulated. As with the Minerval, of which I was for almost a year before moving on, take your time and do the work. The path is drawn out over incarnations and even aeons, there is no rush, and if there is it is all from you. Or from 'Lust of result.'
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93 93/93
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Postby Nephilim » Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:25 am

So, do I contact, say, the C.O.T. / T.O.T. and request to be considered a Student?

I have all the books, and yes, a few are digital copies.
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Postby kuniggety » Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:23 pm

Uh... do you not know what you're trying to initiate into? While there is a particular AA branch intertwined with the CoT/ToT... they're not the same thing as the AA. I actually tried for some months trying to contact someone about starting the Student period with that particular branch, the Estai/Meral lineage, and never heard from anyone.
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Postby Ankh » Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:13 pm

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

Moderators. I hope this post isn't inappropriate. I am quoting from my own copy of TMMS of the A.A. I believe it is relevant to the current discussion.

Quote Kuniggety:Uh... do you not know what you're trying to initiate into? While there is a particular AA branch intertwined with the CoT/ToT... they're not the same thing as the AA. I actually tried for some months trying to contact someone about starting the Student period with that particular branch, the Estai/Meral lineage, and never heard from anyone.
I Hope this helps.

The Mystical & Magical System of the A.A. By James A Eshelman.
http://www.amazon.com/Mystical-Magical- ... 970449607/
Pages 56 & 57. The Collage of Thelema and Temple of Thelema

In the late 1960's, a sister of the A.A.-educator and artist Phyllis Secker, better known in magical circles as Soror Meral-began to accept Probationers in the A.A. and, soon after, established the Collage of Thelema. With this collage, she sought to guide students to an understanding of the Law of Thelema (the life philosophy presented in the book of the law), especially through a deeper understanding of themselves and their dharma, or True Will. Her methods have included, Qabalistic study, the practice of certain magick rituals, self-examination and introspections, attention to physical and psychological heath, astrology, and other methods.

During the collage of thelema's early years, Soror Meral rediscovered the same hard facts Crowley had learned by 1912. She found that most A.A Probationers that she admitted fell by the wayside. They demonstrated little interest in serious work. Often they simply vanished without explanation. But there were exceptions! And, nearly to a one, those exceptions were people who, before being admitted as Probationers, had completed an initial course of study in the Collage of Thelema.
In other words, those who had served a studentship, and preserved through it, were likely to succeed as Probationers. Other (with only a couple of exceptions) were not. Soror Meral thereafter decided, around 1980, that she would not admit as a Probationer any person who had not first completed C.O.T Course I.

A further major evolution occurred in the College of Thelema in late 1987. While continuing it's traditional curriculum, and the Collage also gave birth to a group ceremonial and initiatory system - a modern day Mystery School - called Temple of Thelema. This Order employs ceremonies similar to those of the old Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, but recrafted to conform to the symbols and principles of the Thelemic dispensation declared in The Book of The Law and writings of Aleister Crowley. Along with much other practical instruction, the First Order of The Temple of Thelema incorporates the entire curriculum of Collage of Temple of Thelema Course I. Additionally, its initiates pass through a series of "grades" symbolically equivalent to the A.A. grades, but on a "lower octave." In this way. the Temple of Thelema has renewed and revitalized the preliminary First Order of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn both for its own sake, and as an optional "primary education" for those who approach the A.A.
AL III,17: “Fear not at all; fear neither men nor Fates, nor gods, nor anything. Money fear not, nor laughter of the folk folly, nor any other power in heaven or upon the earth or under the earth. Nu is your refuge as Hadit your light; and I am the strength, force, vigour, of your arms.”
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Postby kuniggety » Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:45 am

Ankh,

Jim has posted here before that they do, in fact, have the option of a traditional student period with those who acquire the books in the student reading list. I just personally never had any luck.
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Postby apostasy_93 » Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:55 am

kuniggety wrote:Uh... do you not know what you're trying to initiate into? While there is a particular AA branch intertwined with the CoT/ToT... they're not the same thing as the AA. I actually tried for some months trying to contact someone about starting the Student period with that particular branch, the Estai/Meral lineage, and never heard from anyone.


i just did the same and keep hearing that about this lineage. hopefully i get some kinda response..does anyone have any advice?
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Postby apostasy_93 » Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:08 pm

RifRaf wrote:For joining the A.'.A.'.? No. If you are sincere about it, and they can tell this even from an e-mail, you will get accepted as a student. It is as simple as that. (Although, I cannot speak for the lineage you are asking about but it seems one and the same with most.) One lineage I would suggest againt is that of Frater 939.


do you have a website? just so i could look into the lineage myself..i'd appreciate any info you might have

93 93/93
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Postby underabloodredsky » Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:09 pm

RifRaf wrote:For which? Frater 939's?

http://www.astronargon.us/

Be careful with this one. I am not trying to disrespect the guy, but it seems that he wants people to do his Will and not their own. Other information I found on him is here:

http://www.heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?t=2726


That Paul Joseph Rovelli's lineage, not Fr. 939's.
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Postby apostasy_93 » Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:09 pm

RifRaf wrote:For which? Frater 939's?

*EDITED* (see next two posts)

Be careful with this one. I am not trying to disrespect the guy, but it seems that he wants people to do his Will and not their own. Other information I found on him is here:

http://www.heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?t=2726


hm..well that's not un-thelemic at all (ahem..sarcasm)
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hi all

Postby christibrany » Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:59 am

hi everyone! I'm new and i have a question to start my membership off.
i would like to do everything correctly, and although I have a pretty long metaphysical and spiritual background I dont have any practical specifically western magical experience.
that said I want to know where to start; So my main question is,

before one does any ritual at all even the lesser banishing rituals, must or should one read all the books in teh student syllabus first? and only then try a ritual out?

or is it OK to try some simple ones while you are studying in your student period? i don't want to get any bad habits or do anything stupid.

thanks so much for your help!

i am also on lashtal too if you are wondering . same name. thanks in advance!
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Re: hi all

Postby Jim Eshelman » Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:09 pm

christibrany wrote:before one does any ritual at all even the lesser banishing rituals, must or should one read all the books in teh student syllabus first? and only then try a ritual out?

Not necessary at all.
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magical weapons

Postby christibrany » Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:08 am

hi again
im still trying to figure out how to start out with magick.

my main question is since it seems that maknig your own magical tools is the best option, when is it appropriate to do so? I see that you should start with the LBRP and I want to do that, but then I see contradictorally that the wand and other tools should only be made as part of certain grades that i am not a part of. so how does one do the rituals when one is not for example a philsophus and thus hasnt crafted a wand?

does it matter doing the tool construction in the grade order?

thanks again...would like to start properly soon....
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Postby christibrany » Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:08 am

and PS i am not around any other people interested in this so it would be self initiation anyway...
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Re: magical weapons

Postby gurugeorge » Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:12 pm

christibrany wrote:hi again
im still trying to figure out how to start out with magick.

my main question is since it seems that maknig your own magical tools is the best option, when is it appropriate to do so? I see that you should start with the LBRP and I want to do that, but then I see contradictorally that the wand and other tools should only be made as part of certain grades that i am not a part of. so how does one do the rituals when one is not for example a philsophus and thus hasnt crafted a wand?

does it matter doing the tool construction in the grade order?

thanks again...would like to start properly soon....

The situation with the Magical Weapons being made at certain grades is more a thing to do with the A:.A:. course specifically, and there are some things that are a bit secret about that AFAIK. If you're just working on your own, I wouldn't worry about it too much - it's nice to have at least a Magical Wand to do ritual work, but until such time as you do make contact with the A:.A:., you can just use your intuition to craft or buy or find things that inspire you (e.g. cut a wand out of an appropriate tree branch you might find, buy a cup that strikes your fancy in an antique shop, etc., etc., etc.)

I wouldn't worry too much about consistency and precision as a solitary practitioner - it's more about inspiration and enthusiasm and trying things out. Have fun, experiment, follow your heart. As you are now, you are a free agent.

Should you make contact with the A:.A:., then would be the time to be extremely consistent and precise, then you would be bound (by the terms of your own Oath) to obey certain specific rules and instructions to the letter.

FWIW
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Postby christibrany » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:01 am

thanks for the response. should be 'thanks again' since i appreciated it when i saw it but i was lazy and didnt post. but it did help!

i came in today cuz i got an email about a PM and i log in and theres nothing htere. makes no sense..

as far as initiation and student phase, i got an offer to initiate into the temple in california, the one from the northern California lineage but i am still in my reading phase, lots to read! o_O i also got a offer to call someone named David Cherubim but im not sure which one i want to take. does anyone have any information? should i post this somewhere else forum wise? thanks again though!
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Postby Jim Eshelman » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:48 am

christibrany wrote:i came in today cuz i got an email about a PM and i log in and theres nothing htere. makes no sense..

That happens whenever the person sending the PM deletes it before you read it. Their sending it triggers the notice - but they can delete it before you get there.

In this particular case, I imagine it was from a spammer who registered on the forum overnight and started spamming PMs. I wiped that account this morning, and it would have deleted any PMs he sent.
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Postby Allogenes » Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:34 am

93

so how does one do the rituals when one is not for example a philsophus and thus hasnt crafted a wand?

Use your index finger.

93 93/93

A.
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Postby Jim Eshelman » Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:46 am

Allogenes wrote:
so how does one do the rituals when one is not for example a philsophus and thus hasnt crafted a wand?

Use your index finger.

True enough.

But also: One would have one or many wands LONG before Philosophus. The Neophyte needs a whole complement of implements / weapons to do the major magical operations that dominate most of that grade. It just isn't THE wand, the Fire Wand of the major weapon set, etc. But one usually makes (and discards or archives) many tools over the course of a career.
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Postby gmugmble » Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:39 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:But one usually makes (and discards or archives) many tools over the course of a career.
This is orthogonal to the discussion, but it's a question that I've had for years: how does one discard or archive a magical tool?
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Postby Jim Eshelman » Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:44 pm

gmugmble wrote:
Jim Eshelman wrote:But one usually makes (and discards or archives) many tools over the course of a career.
This is orthogonal to the discussion, but it's a question that I've had for years: how does one discard or archive a magical tool?

You should desecrate it. That is, do a kind of reverse-consecration to revert it to a profane device, and psychologically release it.
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Postby Ophion280 » Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:48 pm

gmugmble wrote:
Jim Eshelman wrote:But one usually makes (and discards or archives) many tools over the course of a career.
This is orthogonal to the discussion, but it's a question that I've had for years: how does one discard or archive a magical tool?


As far as I understand the nature of the tools, they are just symbols and a means of externalizing an internal force. To move on to a more refined and precise tool would be like changing a motto as your aspirations define themselves better. It really matters not what you do with the old ones at this time because your focus has moved on to the new one. It seems like a sort of transmutation.
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Postby Alias55A » Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:37 pm

93
93

Quote:
so how does one do the rituals when one is not for example a philsophus and thus hasnt crafted a wand?

Use your index finger.

93 93/93

that what i was going to say, and you can use it for an atheme, and your palm as a cup, but id rather get a clean one from the cabbnet before i use the last resort palm, and if you havent made a pantacle, or a symbol that represents the earth element, you can use just a regular pentagram, weather a pendant from a necklace, wood, or if you weave one out of vines, dont matter. (but keep in mind to use these if {proper} tools are not available at the time, because of course it would be better to use them), and actually if you get good enough one day you wont need any tools(props), just your mind :D.

As far as I understand the nature of the tools, they are just symbols and a means of externalizing an internal force. To move on to a more refined and precise tool would be like changing a motto as your aspirations define themselves better. It really matters not what you do with the old ones at this time because your focus has moved on to the new one. It seems like a sort of transmutation.

or you can wrap the tool in a white cloth and barry it under a tree or somewhere in nature as a gift when your done with it, or pass it on to some what else, if it feals right to do so ofcourse
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Postby christibrany » Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:45 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Allogenes wrote:
so how does one do the rituals when one is not for example a philsophus and thus hasnt crafted a wand?

Use your index finger.

True enough.

But also: One would have one or many wands LONG before Philosophus. The Neophyte needs a whole complement of implements / weapons to do the major magical operations that dominate most of that grade. It just isn't THE wand, the Fire Wand of the major weapon set, etc. But one usually makes (and discards or archives) many tools over the course of a career.

thanks for that- i have constructed one out of an old drum stick. i figure i have a lot of energy invested in that particular item already and it is a power item for me, and furthermore i read that the wand evolved out of the shamans drum stick anyway (they think) so that was fun. i sanded it and then used a type of rubber tape to put a single quartz shaft on the end for sending out energy and storing it. i have done no reading on the subject i was just using my intuition and what felt right.
does the use of hickory wood, and the application of quartz crystal on the end to a point of the wand add any effect or purpose? or was my intuition just being aesthetic?

also, if one makes many tools over the course of grades, what is the purpose f the specific order to create a wand at the grade of philosophus?

thanks again- love this forum :)
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