Lon Duquette threatens Spirits?

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Lon Duquette threatens Spirits?

Postby gerry456 » Sat May 05, 2018 6:07 am

Did Jim say that it'd be unnecessary and wrong to threaten to burn a Spirit's Seal if it won't comply to our demands?

What's your opinion?

Cheers
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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Re: Lon Duquette threatens Spirits?

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Sat May 05, 2018 8:50 am

I have no opinion about whether Jim said that.
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Re: Lon Duquette threatens Spirits?

Postby gerry456 » Sat May 05, 2018 9:58 am

Yeah in one of these posts he said torturing them is too old aeon and that's why they appear p1ssed of at us sometimes...no wonder. They've been getting abused and threatened by wizards for decades/centuries....but now as we move out of that Piscean age we can have amore enlightened approach.
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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Re: Lon Duquette threatens Spirits?

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Sat May 05, 2018 4:29 pm

Last edited by Avshalom Binyamin on Sat May 05, 2018 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lon Duquette threatens Spirits?

Postby gerry456 » Sat May 05, 2018 4:46 pm

Hey thanks yes :D
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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Re: Lon Duquette threatens Spirits?

Postby mark0987 » Sun May 06, 2018 9:04 pm

What's your opinion?


I don't have extensive experience with the goetia, I have some good experiences and some bad experiences. My bad experiences came about through my own naivete, disrespect for the system, and my own fear. My good experiences came about when I was more experienced in general and I treated the spirits as spirits- individuals, rather than mere portions of the human mind. (I don't assert they are one or the other, just that for me they seemed to be more receptive when treated as objective individuals.)

In my opinion, any magician who has to scream demands and curses, threaten and enslave any being is a poor magician. Lon DuQuette asserts in his books, like most magicians, that goetia were made to serve and should be forced to do so because that is the natural order of things. A lot of white people believed that about black people too, some still do.

Spirits are good at serving, some of the goetic spirits are keen to serve and will make deals with the magician. I don't see the harm of deals so long as it doesn't hurt or hinder either party. Why would you strive to have a bad business relationship when you can have a beneficial relationship which is mutual?

On the post linked above, Jim likens the goetia to an abused child, I think that can be a good analogy, however, how would you treat an abused child who had behavioural issues. You certainly wouldn't give them slap, threaten to exterminate them, and shout abuse at them. You would be firm, calm, completely in control, but fair.

"If you want to watch television, you will behave and clean your room first, if not, no TV."

"If you gain me the ability to make money, I will leave an offering/tell people about your powers/ carve your sigil into a metal so it is permanant." - They really don't ask for much when they know you are not to be walked all over.

I don't know if you have ever dealt with a naughty child, but they tend to laugh in the faces of adults who scream and shout- because as always "Intolerance is evidence of impotence."
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Re: Lon Duquette threatens Spirits?

Postby gerry456 » Mon May 07, 2018 1:18 pm

Great answer Mark, thanks.
2.19 They shall rejoice, our chosen: who sorroweth is not of us.

2.21 We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world.
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Re: Lon Duquette threatens Spirits?

Postby Magistar418 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:20 pm

I think that the idea of threatening and insulting spirits to get results is a very Christian and old aeon idea. I prefer too treat them as persons who deserve some respect. However, I don't let them past the porch into my home without getting to know them. I don't see anything wrong with being polite and yet firm with good boundaries. Kind of like we would be with anyone on this plane.

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Re: Lon Duquette threatens Spirits?

Postby seekinghga » Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:29 pm

Magistar418 wrote:I think that the idea of threatening and insulting spirits to get results is a very Christian and old aeon idea. I prefer too treat them as persons who deserve some respect. However, I don't let them past the porch into my home without getting to know them. I don't see anything wrong with being polite and yet firm with good boundaries. Kind of like we would be with anyone on this plane.

93 93/93

That sounds like a solid approach to me. The not letting them "past the porch" is but the standard of common courtesy, after all! :P
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Re: Lon Duquette threatens Spirits?

Postby Takamba » Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:45 am

If you're playing with the Goetia and you don't recognize that they're playing a power game with you, you lost it already.

Now they're playing with you.

Yes, yell at them. Command them. "Too old aeon?"

Look under your chairs - you get a demon, you get a demon, you all get a demon!

Participation Demons available upon request!!!

pfffft.

I think there has been a grave misunderstanding.
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Re: Lon Duquette threatens Spirits?

Postby zeph » Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:40 am

"Therefore fear not the Spirits, but be firm and courteous with them; for thou hast no right to despise or revile them; and this too may lead thee astray. Command and banish them, curse them by the Great Names if need be; but neither mock nor revile them, for so assuredly wilt thou be lead into error." —Liber Librae
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Re: Lon Duquette threatens Spirits?

Postby Takamba » Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:34 pm

zeph wrote:"Therefore fear not the Spirits, but be firm and courteous with them; for thou hast no right to despise or revile them; and this too may lead thee astray. Command and banish them, curse them by the Great Names if need be; but neither mock nor revile them, for so assuredly wilt thou be lead into error." —Liber Librae


Neither despise, mock, nor revile. Be firm, and if need be, curse them by the command of the highest.

Revile means to be abusive. Commanding is not about being abusive, nor is yelling above the roar. But remember, they are not the higher power - you are. And if you want to be a milksop, make bargains with them, allow them to flatter you and have their way on your faces; be informed, you've missed the mark of the purpose of the evocation in the first place - to bring them to your light, to your discipline, to your path toward holiness.

They aren't here to teach you to believe you already know everything, they are here, in your triangle of art, to teach you what and how to learn. Not as your teachers, but as your howlings, your mockings, your tormentings. Fix them. Heal them. Yes, all the good things for them, but alas, as if they were your own limbs suffering the agonies of infection. Bathe them in the sting of antiseptic or suffer the consequences.
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Re: Lon Duquette threatens Spirits?

Postby seekinghga » Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:04 pm

Cool post, zeph. :) Though, in all seriousness, we should listen to Takamba...
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